Dutch language

How to pronounce cudgel in Dutch?

Full Transcript

welcome everyone
i'm very proud today to receive
together with you ayan erci ali
who is to me
like the big sister i've never had
and i wish everyone could have
that sister to talk
about
issues that we face as women
to talk about issues that we face as
citizens
and to never stop
even when it becomes very difficult
so welcome to you everyone i would like
to invite you to sit and the program
looks
um
as follows so pascal bruckner who is
here is a
famous french writer and philosopher
some of you have read his interview in
trau recently
about workism and the eternal the fact
that
i hope the interpretation works
well for darling
okay um
about the idea of walkism today and the
fact that white people are perceived as
eternal guilty ones perpetrators and
black people as eternal victims which we
obviously are not
so and you also are not actually guilty
of anything so today bruckner will do a
short introduction to why it's important
to have this conversation conversation
today
after that i will have a conversation
with ayan about five major topics
related to freedom
and then we'll have a q a feel free to
ask all your questions and then teo
franken here who is our former secretary
of state for asylum migration one of the
most popular flemish politicians from my
party very proud of him will
conclude
and then we will have a reception
and
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welcome and thank you for joining us
thank you uh mr britney who said
introduction is
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um
is
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is
um
contest
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new
i can't speak dutch but it takes quite a
bit of energy to find the words
these days i've been gone for at least
i've been gone since 2006 uh and i
haven't i've barely spoken it but i
understand every word but i really want
to thank you very much for bringing me
here and i want to thank you for the
work you've done and for you for the
courage that you've displayed i know
it's extremely difficult to be from
africa and to be black and to get
involved in these
culture wars and to refuse
the status of being a victim
even though in many ways it actually is
the easy way out
and i also want to thank pascal with
whom i mean i've known pascal since 2002
2003 and you've been very brave and very
consistent
in defending the freedom of speech and
the freedom of speech of even the people
that you disagree with
and dislike and
unfortunately here we are years on
and the
situation uh
on intolerance and of intolerance
whether it's from islamist groups or now
these so-called woke groups
is a lot worse
than 15 years ago or 20 years ago so we
have the fight of
of a lifetime on our hands
and then obviously i want to express the
pleasure of meeting uh
theo and
just how hard your position is in having
to deal with asylum and immigration
and asylum in particular because
europe is surrounded
by africa and the middle east and
both of those places
um uh
countries
that are facing challenges of economic
challenges
challenges of poverty and challenges of
religious intolerance so you are going
to see
large numbers of people coming from the
middle east coming from africa coming
from south asia
to europe and as that happens and as
that continues and as the people settle
here
i think the conversations you have now
about religious intolerance
and women's rights and freedom of speech
are just going to get ever more
difficult so with that
i think we can begin yeah i i think ayan
is still a politician
a little bit
i would like to start by showing you so
i apologize uh for showing this video
because i know it's very difficult for
you ayan to say this but i would like
everyone to go back to 2005 i think and
when it was 2005 to see what happened
but before we launch the video i would
like to thank everyone for being here i
see members of parliament anik the
reader uh mathias van numbura i see
miyadona uh columbus of the standard i
apologize if i forgot anyone's name i
see members of european parliament
michael orvin
doreen rockmaker
jessica stegrut i see kunmitsu who has
been working a lot on the is jihadist
and everyone great people here and
also people who came from the
netherlands as well like
like you welcome
jill frustrated is also here i hear and
i would like to take a moment to thank
our teams my team
and i am team because this was so much
work because don't forget and still need
protection it's very difficult to have
your freedom of speech and also she just
flew in yesterday from san francisco
arrived late
so
i say ever happened then if the
economics
okay
so let's go to this uh to to this clip
first and welcome again everyone
is
we'll show other pictures showing that
this situation did not change a lot you
see this happened this was about teo
vanga
a new
you see
what happened after that
is still some attacks in europe
these people did some things i'm sure
you recognize
some faces
and
the french teacher samuel patty
has been also killed in 201 and
2020 i think in 2020
just because he
uh spoke freely in the classroom
um and that is the the the news in the
fox grant as you can see
and you also have now miss
menier who has to hide because she did a
report about islamism in rube
where what is happening in rubai is not
very different from what is happening
in the neighborhoods in afghanistan
actually
but she did a report about that and she
is now gone into hiding because they
said they want to kill her she's a
journalist from m6 it was this year i'll
just go back to you ayan um you know
these pictures are very difficult and
apologies that i continue english but
it's much easier for ayah
this this did not change the situation
did not change and i'm wondering what
did you see change in your life since
then since the murder on uh theo van
gogh
and when you did the film submission
together did you notice anything on your
side
well i think it's very important for us
that we talk about what exactly is it
that changed or did not change
there are a number of radical islamists
who live in europe and not just in
europe but also in other western
countries
who believe that
if any
any kind of perceived uh offense is
committed against their religion
then
they have not only the right but the
obligation to go
and uh and kill the person who they
think of
who has committed this perceived offense
i had declared i was no longer a muslim
i had said
that
the prophet muhammad
if you looked at his
some of his characteristics some of his
legacy and you applied it in
modern western society
some of those things might be seen as
criminal of course that's blas that was
blasphemy and that's blasphemic and in
many ways i thought they were committing
the blasphemy because they are the ones
who kept dragging the prophet into these
types of conversations
but long story short
the if you're asking me
the danger the risk
of
losing your head or being killed or
having to live with threats in europe
has that gone up or down
unfortunately it has gone up
and it has gone up because the number of
young men mostly young men but also
young women who believe that violence is
the answer to their religious
convictions
that number has increased and it is
increasing and what has changed in my
life um i have stopped having
i haven't quite stopped but i have
stopped yes engaging directly
with
these individuals from a political
platform and i think that creates a
different has in my life created a
different context for me
what is what what is the different
context you mean
the difference when i was in parliament
in the netherlands it was the constant
focus i think the idea from both sides
from the side of the islamists it was if
only we could silence her the way they
silenced theo fungal
then the provocations which is what they
were accusing me of would stop
and from my fellow politicians whether
they were in my own party or in the
other parties
i think at one point i was seen as the
person causing the provocation so if i
had left if i was silenced i don't think
that my colleagues wanted to kill me but
i think that they thought it would be a
good sign of consensus or peaceful if i
somehow slipped away and i think that's
one of the things that pascal bruckner
was upset about but the idea was that if
i went down if i went quiet
then
the violence would go away it's totally
it's quite unacceptable that those who
defend our freedom are the ones who need
to go down
because we should never compromise about
freedom should we
i don't think we should compromise about
freedom but before we even get to
making compromises i think we have to
sit back and ask ourselves what exactly
are our values and is there anything
among those values that we're willing to
fight for and die for and i don't think
we ever answered that question i think
that when these
value clashes started to come about
it was argued within
a debate framework of well they're
minorities and they're immigrants
and up to a certain point you can
tolerate or you would tolerate some of
these things that were seen either as
their culture or their religion or their
way of life
and it was never
set
aside you know it wasn't set up in such
a way as to say well if that's their
values if they're willing to die for
that what are we willing to fight for
and what are we willing to die for
and then because of this minority thing
i think when
we started to see a lot of violence
whether it's against women or whether
it's against random people this is what
some of the terrorists were doing
it was seen as an issue for the police
for law enforcement for surveillance
forces and never really was discussed as
as a clash of values as a different
perspective of living and
living with one another
and as long as we don't do that and as
long as we then do not communicate
exactly what it is that we stand for and
are willing to protect i don't think the
other side is going to get the point
so
an important takeaway here the issue of
values this is what we need to talk
about do not compromise and do not fall
into cultural relativism what via
netherlands cultural activism
this is the threat to our freedom
because we comply with what we should
never compromise with and to this gives
us a bridge i will not address all the
issues related to values now because
otherwise you will have nothing left
during the q a so i want to leave room
for that i'm sure you will have
questions for for ayan i would like to
use this bridge to move to the next
topic which is actually continuing
because of
the the compliance with values that are
actually not values we should defend or
support and
which is touching the self-determination
with a lot of women so i would like to
invite my team to show the video of ayan
not the video of ayan
about a testimony on on this topic
that is touching the heart of millions
of girls and that is related to
self-determination
[Applause]
was a testimony that you gave
in the netherlands years ago this is a
video of myself not because i really
want to show you my face but because i
want to complete the information ayan
explained what happens in somalia when
girls are cut and and i will continue in
dutch and nazareth's addiction
so you can show that as well and then
some of this is going to be in dutch as
well
it is on mcgregor it knew what it is
when the neiman got here foreign
the pan is acne tonum
and a skinned heavy fertile in the
outers
i think ayan gets the flavor of the
point
i would like to go back now to
to ayan this testimony you gave it
so such a long time ago at that time did
you hear remarks when you shared what
was happening in people's lives when
they are cut and that the women were
saved so that they could say virgin what
what were the reactions of people at
that time the netherlands when you
shared that story for the first time uh
well the the reaction was very strong
and it was a
shock people were shocked europeans were
shocked the dutch were shocked and they
were horrified
and they thought that this is something
so barbaric and i thought some of them
asked me if it was a punishment i said
no it's done out of love it's done out
of tradition and it's it's very cultural
and
it was rejected unanimously
but then what happens when you say all
right let's legislate against that then
so
when i was discussing these issues in
parliament it was very easy to get to
the point of saying we're going to see
this as a criminal act which is exactly
what it is so it's criminalized
and then the next point which became a
sticking point and i think it still is a
sticking point is there never was a way
of enforcing that legislation
as you can see female genital mutilation
takes place between the legs
and it happens to children as young as
five so if you you can say we're going
to put a hundred years in prison for
anybody who committed but if you can't
enforce it you haven't changed that much
and so i think from my time back then 15
or 20 years ago until now
everybody is still horrified by it
the legislation is in every country i'm
fighting for it in the u.s and most u.s
states
i can persuade them
to adopt
the
legislation
but we haven't moved an inch forward
when it comes to the enforcement of that
legislation one day i was debating in
france
in your country
pascal but it's not your fault it was
just another french person who told me
don't be that strict with people
when you speak about
female genital mutilation because people
need time to understand our laws and our
values
so what do you think when someone says
that it was not pascal don't worry it
was of course
someone else and i will go back to uh to
ayan to answer did you hear such things
as well that we needed to wait for
people to learn about european values
and as if this was something that you
could learn much later
it democratized
uh
it's the democratic impatience
and it was an appeal
to the population to say if you have
immigrants
who are coming in with radically
different cultures give them time to
assimilate and over time
the values of
the dutch and other europeans
that's going to catch on it will happen
in school it will happen in the
playground it will happen through the
movies and the entertainments etc
and what we've seen now is that that
time has actually passed
and
the number of um
migrants or
what's now a minority that number is
more
it has most definitely rubbed off on
a minority of immigrants like myself
who've readily adopted these values but
for a majority of people we now have the
ghettos and the segregated living
quarters and conditions where kids
of the same background attend schools
and so their back their playgrounds and
their schools and the entertainment
sources that they look up to they've now
become more and more
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similar to the countries of origin
rather than to the countries that they
live in so if you ask me and i think
deep inside what we're really talking
about
is the process of integration of
integrating these minorities into
society and i think that
you know there are different countries
but
in general uh europeans have not done a
good job of that
so what we have learned here also is a
new term democrat is undult the
democratic impatience so i hope we all
stay very impatient because of course we
cannot wait for people to learn
something that everyone should actually
know and then i have a question for you
speaking of integration when you are
well integrated you get
the remark that you're actually
becoming a bounty or all kind of did
anyone tell you that you were white
yes
i was called a white supremacist i was
called an uncle tom
i was called a bounty
uh which i don't know if you know it
it's it's a piece of chocolate that's
made of coconuts and yeah
so i i was called all of these
nonsensical words but i mean if you
understand
you have to develop a thick skin
and you do that very quickly in politics
but what you also understand is that if
people are not engaged in the argument
if they're not willing to persuade you
to listen to them
um
and and they move very quickly to
insults then they've run out of
arguments and i think that really
weakens their position
but also that's why they hate freedom of
speech
so you definitely don't look uh white to
me
i have been called all these names as
well and uh in my podcast uh rebellio
saint freon templar and
pascal brickner told us how his partner
she she is uh
half white and half black has also
sometimes been called bounty and that
was very shocking for you it was uh
indeed
uh i would uh like to ask you another
question ayan before i go to our next
video that i hope uh will uh uh work i
have you
did you read shakespeare when you were
when you were a teenager or in africa
yes part of him and i read shakespeare
so you read books written
by
by white people when you were in africa
only books written by white
that's that's what was there when i was
and did you understand what was in the
books
yes and i understood what was in the
books but we never had
i was living in nairobi when i was in
fourth grade fifth grade and onwards
and we didn't read those books because
they were written by white people we had
them because they were books
and they were entertaining and they were
informative and we loved some of the
books and we we didn't like some of them
and then talking of black writers uh
when i got a little older i read books
written by black authors nigerian chinua
achebe i think steve biko of south
africa
and we didn't read those books because
they were written by blacks but there
because also because of what's in
between the covers of those books and i
think it should always be like that
so this is why i want to show you this
video uh just i think some of you know
what i want to show you
please go ahead
mr president
dr biden
madam vice president
mr imhof
americans and the world
this poem
well it was not allowed to a white
person to translate this poem so ms van
varein felder
was not allowed with a dutch author and
poet was not allowed to translate this
poem because people were worried
ms van renvald would not understand
what a black american poet was trying to
say but we just heard that
ayan understood shakespeare when she was
younger and i did also understand simon
de beauvoir so about this did you hear
about this commotion about the
translation here in in europe and
the person had to remove herself from
the contract and also in in spain it was
not okay to that it was translated by
someone who was a man and who was white
so at the end i wondered because when i
read pascal brickner's book i understood
everything
so
what what is your your view on this
i think it's insane
yeah i i think i think it's insane first
of all um let's start with what we were
talking about now which is the
integration where you you have to
require
uh people who settle in belgium or the
netherlands or france to speak your
language are we going to say french and
dutch and german are
white languages or the languages of the
white man but do you see how ridiculous
these things are
and
why why i mean
this it is um elon musk calls this a
mind virus walkism and i really think
it's these types of thing that
demonstrates that it really is a mind
virus it's a form of madness and i think
serious healthy people should not take
it
should not take it seriously
what what i personally found very funny
is that joe biden is white too and the
poem was for him
and he understood it maybe somehow
so
well now i would like to uh go to
another topic uh you know when we speak
about racism uh usually and i think in
the interview in trial that
pascal brickner gave recently which
really was a hit also in in flanders is
that we have this story that um
i will continue in in in that should i
just influence you just to please also
everyone here uh if interpretation is
still ongoing and okay
that meant sir the
um
sorry pascal that meant that he he the
the the blank sign in exactly his blank
anyway that means blank sign uh go on a
with her the other side and
well
basically she said
she said
black people do not have a system or
power to dominate white people
so black people can never be racist
because they can discriminate but they
can never be racist and i was so shocked
that i can only say whoa so i'm
wondering what you think about do you
think that black people can be what what
is your take
this is a whole ideology and it's um
it's been
refined to
um
to communicate the message that's uh
there are oppressors and there are those
who are oppressed oppressor is
always male and heterosexual and yes he
established systems and those systems
are used to privilege white people and
then and privilege white men and
everybody else is a victim
this narrative or ideology
is then used by people to get access to
power and it's usually political power
and when you're called a racist that's
when you question some something and
that is the people who are advancing
this ideology they want power they want
unchecked power they don't want to be
questioned they don't want to answer
questions and so i think listening to
this
i'm looking at a young woman
i i really feel sorry for her i feel
extremely sorry for her because if your
image of yourself
is that you're always a victim someone
else is a victim that you have no agency
over your life that you have no control
over your own destiny
and you at the same time live in a free
country where you can do all of these
things or you can do whatever it is that
you please as long as you abide within
the abide by the law
then i really feel very sorry for young
people who have been brainwashed in this
way
and very upset with the people who are
pushing these ideologies to get to power
as we said uh also
in the the most important thing is to
give
hope to tell young people that
regardless of their color or origin
they can achieve their dreams that is
the positive message you need to share
and you've pointed out very well the
barrier that we self-built and that
prevent a lot of you like this young
woman to to to achieve their dreams i
was feeling also very sorry for her and
afterwards as well i i i even wrote a
piece that zara here was uh
working on that how do you continue your
life like this and how can you spend so
much energy must be exhausting to spend
so much energy being a victim it's very
difficult but there are so many people
who live like this and you know who else
is more addicted to victimhood is people
who are against integration and who
actually want so many black people to be
victims so that they can feel happy
because they can play
like assisting these people who are
victims and they're addicted to the
victimhood of others and keeping them
keeping them uh
in the position so that they can
continue feeding themselves we had a
debate recently on television and we
thought i said like this uh the left
wing is sometimes actually depending on
the victims of others and using it as a
life insurance actually to continue
existing
luckily nowadays there are more and more
people of foreign descent and who are
well integrated
and who say no i do not want to be a
victim and we hope that more and more
people are going to say no we want to be
like go
equal
equal and and free do you experience
that there are more and more people also
in your perception that are actually
listening to this message and trying to
to share it
yeah i do i see a lot of people who are
saying i don't want to be treated like a
victim i'm not your victim
also
people who are acknowledging
that so i live in the us and in the u.s
i mean the entire history of the country
has been set aside as systemically
racist
and members of the black community are
coming forward and saying it isn't the
us is the only country that has actually
fought
a war to end slavery and we have a lot
of terrible things in our history but to
dismiss it as
only
a horrible history
of slavery and segregation and
oppression and nothing else
is false and not only is it false it
hinders
black americans from
leading
a life in freedom and and
members of the black community that i
was talking to who's who are the
descendants of slaves were saying that
it actually america is the best place in
the world to be black
and i can acknowledge that and i think
it is
when people hear this you're a victim
you're a victim and get enough of it
they come out and say
don't call me a victim i don't want you
to call me a victim i'm also seeing
white people who are fed up with being
called racists and who are saying stop
this nonsense the word racist as a
cudgel
as a tool of power has now become so
blunt it doesn't make any sense it's
expected
elon musk wants to buy twitter everybody
says you're a racist who doesn't like
what he's doing he just shrugs his
shoulders and life goes on and that's i
think what we're seeing and both of
those developments where the people who
are being termed victim just because of
their skin color stand up and refuse
that label and where white people just
say we're fed up with this and move on i
think that is a healthy trend forward
but the impact of walkism the impact of
these ideologies on our institutions of
learning
colleges
high schools elementary schools teacher
training colleges and our other cultural
institutes
that is still that impact is
um it's very very serious and i think in
many ways uh we haven't
we haven't realized how serious it is we
haven't really come
around to correcting course on those
things but there is hope here if you you
can say racist now and it's and you're
just serious
lost all meaning it brings me to the two
last questions i would have for ayan so
because what you said about education
it's um making me think of the cancer
culture
now erasing things from books erasing
things from movies
moving a statute of churchill or trying
to move it
someone who ended who helped end war in
europe
but before going to these two questions
so ask these two one question about that
and one personal question to you to you
ayan and then i will go to uh pascal to
see if he still has anything to to to
add or to comment about
but before that i would like to welcome
uh colleague malika zmani's vice
president of new europe and
fellow colleague in the liberty
committee to work on integration in
europe he's also from the vvd the
netherlands so malik welcome thank you
for voucher and if i forget any other
member of parliament i cannot
quote everyone but we have opportunity
to talk afterwards
i would like to go to the council
culture part we've
noticed that this ideology came a lot
from the u.s to europe
there is a lot of copy paste in in
europe where
the one for example to gone with the
wind is suddenly a racist movie and even
children movies are
bad and we need to make mickey mouse or
someone else i don't remember there is a
kind of little mouse i'm not very good
at children movies because when i was a
child i didn't was it people around
house okay so i don't know do you know
people and house of course yes
so you know all these things what do you
think about
so i think in a serious way the ideology
the post-modernist romanticist
ideologies they actually do come from
europe and i'll say from pascal's
country they were french
not from you
no no no of course they were not not you
but they're really french and these
post-modernist ideologies made their
ways to the universities in the us
where
they became institutionalized and you'll
hear things like gender studies racial
studies this that and the other
and they were a series of studies that
were not taken seriously for a long time
i mean if you had a degree in gender
studies what would you do with your life
it was that sort of thing
those people were dismissed until to my
surprise
in 2020 after the death of george floyd
in minnesota
there was almost an explosion where
instead of seeing
um
you know conversations that i was used
to
listening to among a small very fringe
group of people in universities had now
become
mainstream
and people were being cancelled people
were canceled before that
but these cancellations became
i'll say
more
more frightening in their consequences
now i know of professors who have been
cancelled i know of professors and their
students phd students you yourself were
counseled in a university in the in in
the us where you were not allowed to
speak yes this is back in 2014 it was at
the brandeis university
but in my case i still
i still thought of it as islamist
intolerance it was the muslim students
at the university of brandeis who were
saying
if this woman comes to this campus
we will be harmed or it's not safe for
us
and the president of the university
thoughts
he found that a strong argument
and and canceled me but i still thought
that that was within the context of
the islamists
having a very hard time getting used to
the idea of free speech and tolerance
what you are seeing with the
kansas what we are calling council
culture now which is part of this woke
trend
is a challenge to free speech that is
coming from inside from within our own
universities so you have a lot of
professors that have been cancelled
students who can no longer come with the
proposition the synopsis of what they
want to work on because they know that
it is uh it's not going to be tolerated
and in many ways i see that as
more dangerous than even
radical islamism islamism is a foreign
ideology and i think it's easily
recognized as as such it became quickly
violent and so the opposition to
islamists was very effective
the opposition
to wokism and this council culture is a
lot more subtle they've now i would say
captured the minds of many young people
not all millennials but in enough
millennials
to cause uh some institutional harm and
institutional setbacks that if we don't
wake up to now and change we really are
going to have a hard fight on our hands
since yesterday
for everyone who wrote the press
yesterday you see that you cannot the
administration is learning to say to no
longer say ladies and gentlemen but to
say the people's names
and uh i was thinking like oh so when i
got out of a taxi yesterday the driver
told me madame and i was like you know
you were breaking the law
you said
i thought that would be very strange and
today when
i was wearing this dress in my office i
wanted one of my team members who is a
lady to help me close it because somehow
it's quite a gymnastic to close it and i
was like is there
what do you say then is a girl in my
office or is there someone with a vagina
or is there some is you know or what do
you do actually you know so how are you
going to say so how can i say
madame
can we continue saying that so this is
part of the workism that we're
experiencing but more seriously as well
we've seen that we had this issue with
the commission who said don't say
christmas holidays because it may offend
people it bring me like to you
don't look dangerous at all except that
you can change people's mind and that's
what people were fearing at the universe
so we are going this work is going super
super far but we would need a whole day
to discuss that i would like to move to
the last question that is a bit personal
uh i i don't know if
pascal was intending to react to this
case of cultural invocation before i go
to the last question
reaction the the
the dom
um
is
uh
an
francis
so the last question for ayan and then
i'll go to the q a and after the q a
teo here will have a couple of minutes
to to make a conclusion i hope he will
not copy pascal
so um
i would like to come back to you
regard to close this regarding women's
rights because this is the biggest fight
that we have to to fight because at the
end of the day what got you a lot into
trouble was because you wanted all women
including muslim women to be free and
equal to uh to men and you requested uh
feminism to have the universal aspect of
protecting everyone instead of doing
some um selection depending on what is
easy uh to to defend or not and in your
your in your speech here you also
uh emphasize uh the the the risk of
integra of of integration failure on uh
achieving um equality and and in
protecting women rights
as a person yourself who underwent
female genital mutilation and who um
went through so much trouble in life by
defending your own from other people's
freedom one thing you told me recently
during one of our conversation really
moved me and i would like to share that
with our audience it was something very
simple perhaps too simple you would say
but for me it meant a lot ayaan told me
eight bengal
she said she was happy
and you know how many uh people do you
actually see who go through all this and
at the end of the day they find a way
to be happy as a woman to be happy as a
wife and to be happy as a mother so to
me this was very
very moving
and just to say having and having gone
through fgm and through other trouble
myself i stopped seeing a friend during
two years because she asked me are you
happy and i was too scared to answer her
question so i didn't see her anymore for
a couple of
of time so when you told me that and as
i said at the beginning of the of the
discussions here i honest to me the big
sister i would have loved to have
it really did something to me so that's
why i wanted to shed up the audience
what we want at the end of the day for
all the women we are defending
for the universal right of women is that
every woman is capable of saying as a
woman as a daughter as a mother and has
a wife or even as a singer i'm happy and
i'm free that's what we want to achieve
and my question to you is a bit
difficult do you think we'll succeed in
our lifetime to achieve that
and what would you like to ask
colleagues who are in this parliament
who are now in this room
and how do yourself want to contribute
moving from here
well there's a lot packed into that
question
i think i would like to start with the
crisis of feminism
the movement
that is old that we all benefited from
that
achieved equal rights before the law
and i know that in some countries are
more advanced than others but feminism
in general is in crisis
i want you to look at the following you
have
challenges facing women
like this extreme types of violence
in many parts of the world
uh the middle east south asia africa
india china
you have to look at what the uyghur
community is going through and
there is an internment
of
10 million people in china but very
specifically women are being
systematically raped
and they're also being sterilized
against their will so there's that kind
of horrific violence that goes on
against women and sometimes it is
government-led
you're watching the ukraine war now in
the way women are used in as tools of
war rape is used as a tool of war
horrible unimaginable violence against
women perpetrated by states
perpetrated by militias perpetrated in
the name of religion very often by
families
so it's not like we can say the work of
feminists is done we've achieved some
form of equality we can move on we can't
do that
there's a lot of work to do
so that's one set of challenges for
women and then there's this other set of
challenges the one we were just laughing
about
where we've
amongst us we have people who want to
eliminate
the word woman from the language and we
are turned into people who menstruate
and people who chest feed and you have
this trivial
fights
on you know i'm watching the supreme
court nominee of the united states who
was nominated because
she's black and she's a woman that's
what the president who nominated her
said
and she's asked there can you define
what a woman is and she says i can't i'm
not a biologist
so on the one level we have that can you
believe that we have it that
is one way of talking about women
and i just think
asita i i don't know maybe we should
start our own
fresh feminism
that prioritizes the serious problems
that women face
and we don't waste time on the on the
trivializing aspects of it on the other
hand i do take this trivialization
very very seriously
because they are now in western society
girls who are bullied if they call
themselves girls you know sporting for
women used to be an incredibly an
important path to emancipation
and now young men join in women's sports
and we are told to accept that i think
it is
to sit back passively
and accept that
is going to set us back i think if you
accept that you can't define a woman
anymore then what what exactly are we
fighting for
and so
i think the challenges facing women are
very very very important and i i'm going
to say that with the caveat that we have
achieved a lot i don't want to be like
some of the women in the us who say you
know living in america is just like
living in afghanistan that is not true
that's rubbish it's nonsense if you live
in
europe if you live in america as a woman
you your rights are much much more
protected than if you're living in some
of these other countries so celebrate
what we've achieved
and fight
against these
challenges especially the violence
against women that we see but let's also
hopefully maybe develop a new feminism
that fights against this
the trivializing or
basically the abolishing of women from
the lexicon
[Applause]
so that was the last question and as you
heard we need to start a new movement
our own fresh feminism and
there was i want to share a joke with
you there was someone who wrote on
twitter about my party president bardo
weaver that if as this man of new post
modernism
and then bart wrote modernism
you know and ayan just said uh during
this conversation post-modernism twice
i think so that's good i'm going to add
this to the
to what was said and i would like to
invite everyone for we knocked my book
play door for new feminists my dog
negleys and if this uh the princess and
that occurred hang out and to move
before moving to the q a i want to share
that i was in iraq
and kurdistan last week
and it reminded me of how grateful i am
to live in europe and how grateful i am
to our european identity to the freedom
that we have because being a woman in
the middle east i'm telling you that's
not a hobby i'm going to have
and i don't want to be a woman in
certain neighborhoods in europe either
because that is also very difficult i
was walking around in in in iraq and in
kurdistan and i i passed a cafe we
didn't walk around a lot because we were
having uh i have had
in the evening when i walk in molenbach
in the cafe there are only men so my
reaction was hmm that could have been in
mullenberg but you know i just kept it
to myself and i took a selfie and the
men were looking and i told me okay
good but i learned something very sad
and you pointed out you pointed it out
that at global level there is an issue
with women rights
they told me that 27 women have been
killed in kurdistan since the beginning
of this year this means almost five
women per month and this is honor
killings which also exists in europe but
i invite you to read ayan's book called
pray pray in the netherlands and she
elaborates a lot on this topic you will
read about the position of women in
europe please
order it online and and have read it it
exists in english and in in induction in
french as well and you can also order
pascal brickness book about
the awakeners holding a
wittmann that can be stellar lays an
interview in trau and teo's book about
nato which is today very very
much in the news as well and thank you
so much ayan thank you well
i would like to go to the q and a if you
have questions now is the moment we have
10 minutes of q and a
and i will start with mia dornat
starting the woman
um
thank you well
mr sexy ali i think the new feminism is
already working i'm one of those who
has stated that after
every success of feminism there has been
a counterwave
and this one is the most dangerous of
all because it's not about the role of
women it's simply denying that women
exist
i was at a colloquium where
somebody said okay the main question
today is define what is a woman and i
said
why don't you ask to define what a man
is
why a woman and indeed they want to
erase us from humanity and when i see
that a lancet has a cover the main
medical
publication that science has not been
thoughtful enough about bodies with
vaginas i
i refuse like everybody to become a
menstruator or a body with the vagina so
we are doing that but i think that this
really something which um
which should be extremely emphasized and
so my question to you is
do you have an idea where this comes
from that suddenly women should be
erased from
from humanity from history from
everything
the the research i have done on where it
comes from is from uh trans activists
and
i think it's very important to make a
distinction between people who are
transgender or who live with dysphoria
gender dysphoria and who are going about
their daily businesses and who say they
just want to be treated with dignity and
with equality and i support that
wholeheartedly but there is
a different strain of transgender
activists
who have developed the language and and
then this or rather the corruption of
the language where they want to
eliminate women as a woman as we know
and number one it reduces the woman
to her genitals to her reproductive
parts which as you say exactly is right
it is far more dangerous in many ways
than the old uh
misogyny which did exactly the same
thing
um
and then there is this invasion
of spaces that women fought for for a
long time there are women-only prisons
women-only
restrooms toilets etc
women-only spaces that are now being
opened to men where heterosexual men are
exploiting that type of opening
and
assaulting women and i think that in
many ways you are absolutely right that
we have to keep an eye on this
movement because it doesn't only change
the language it sets back the laws by
creating new laws and by
by
presenting this
new form of misogyny
as an emancipation movement
because they say it's about the
emancipation of the transgender
community so it's a zero sum they can
only be emancipated if the women are
eliminated and of course that's
unacceptable but if i may how do you
explain that in the trans community
on the men's side you do not you do not
have that hate against men
it's only trans women why why does that
happen on the other side if you are
if you are a woman and you transition
from
being a woman to being a man
i think it makes a great deal of sense
that you don't want to compete in their
spots
and if you're a woman and you transition
to become i don't think you will make a
great deal of noise about wanting to
join their prisons
oh
in many ways i think
it's it's
it sort of speaks for itself
that
women who transition
and i
they very quietly go about their
business
or they are not represented by
this
hardcore
transgender activists the hardcore
transgender activists they have as their
program
to
to put down women not to elevate the
transgender community and that's why i
think your question is very important
well i will go to
thank you ayan and i i will just ask for
whoever asked a question please say uh
your name and and what you do so just to
tell you mia dornad is a columnist of
the standard please read her articles
and she's very active on twitter as well
so
and don't forget to follow ayan and
myself on twitter too already has a lot
of followers but you can follow him too
and pascal is not on twitter so
okay i would like to give the floor for
other questions but i suggest that we
take several questions yes and that you
can say because we don't have uh there
is a lot of
there are a lot of questions between us
and uh
and the reception
let's uh also give an opportunity for
him this afternoon to to to rest but i
will start with um
i had mickey logan had a question please
introduce yourself be brief that we take
other questions as well and then ayan
will answer thank you so much asita i
will i will speak speaking english
although i'm dutch but it's much more
convenient
and and thank you so much for for this
for this panel discussion and and i
think that
um being from the netherlands and and uh
when you were active in in dutch
politics i was still in high school and
you know you're always looking for ways
to to find what's your political
ideology and i still remember you on
television and and
you left the netherlands quite some time
ago but please remember that that you
inspired a generation of politicians in
the netherlands so thank you for that
as a member of european parliament i'm a
member of a committee called fem
which is solely focused on
gender equality and women rights
and
being one of the few white men in these
committees or
i should say cis gender white privileged
male
in these committees we're always looking
for i'm always looking for
on the one hand listening to the
arguments that that that are being put
forward in in this committee and on the
other hand
uh try to to to formulate a counter
narrative but what we see and that is
what i think monsieur bruckner also
addressed in his trau interview is that
on the one hand we have this vocalism
and we have this this this polarization
but on the other hand we also see a
counter movement coming up which also is
i think
a dangerous form of extremism so my
question to you is how do we find a
middle ground in this discussion without
losing
um without throwing away your principles
and the second question is very shortly
in the fem committee there is something
a file i'm a shadow repertoire on its
intersectionalism
and it's it's very much used as
a way for the european parliament to
look to make policies so i was just
wondering what your take is on on this
intersectionalism and how the debate is
going on in the united states on this
thank you so much okay i'll go to the
other questions guess to also add that
intersectionalism means you know a bit
of cultural relativism when we use it in
the european
parliament
because it may not mean the same in the
us just to to add it out to that i would
like to give the flow now to
hank babur uh court we are in the
european parliament and they gave this
so
i'm always looking forward to use it
empowerment men can create fraud
what is your boats hub
for men's alderley vancouver
in the past
and i would like to give the flow now to
uh
anik the reader
the middlebury
event
parliament and she's the first ever
female deputy mayor for the port of
antwerp which is the most important part
in belgium
very very good yeah
so i've got two minutes to take this
cluster of three questions
i will start with you as first of all
thank you for the compliments
uh i think it is
um
quite possible
and also
very important that we fight for what we
believe in so against the workers
ideology and for instance against
islamist ideology and that we fight for
equal rights between before by between
men and women
and
at the same time
um
[Music]
don't become intolerant ourselves
and i think the way to do that and it i
think the last question is related to
this one
is to
be very clear about what your values are
to begin with
and
once that's clear
then i think it's also very clear what
it is that you're arguing for that
you're fighting for
when we get into problems is when we
start to use the victim narrative and
say
we can't have you can't argue with me
because you're a white man you don't
have that right anymore you're
privileged and i think that there has to
be some sort of consensus where we say
we're all equal before the law and we're
all equal as human beings if you want us
to reach some sort of consensus then you
can't use and in that sense i think of
myself as being intolerant towards that
type of stances
i can't have a conversation with you
if you
say
i can never be right
because of my identity and it's an
identity that i can't change you can't
change your gender i mean they say you
can't these days but
all your skin color and these things
then become completely irrelevant
um and i think that way it's we used to
talk about it 15 or so years ago
there has to be some form of intolerance
against intolerance
and and and then we we have to be very
clear on
the type of intolerance that we will
then be intolerant too and on the last
question which i think is really related
it is been my frustration in europe
that europeans don't explain they don't
bother to explain what their values are
you are absolutely right the islamist
says
i am doing i'm going to engage in jihad
i'm going to keep the women
locked up because those are my values
and that's what my god says and the
response to it is either to ridicule him
to say you can't do this here for those
who reject it but it is never to take
the step to explain well
i have a different perspective here are
my values and in this country i'll
ensure that my values prevail i mean
that is the kind of conversation we've
always been looking for for a long time
what is as you ask
boats hub for mensa in afghanistan's
position
what is my message for people who find
themselves in
circumstances of deprivation or that are
challenging
you know with my own life story um i
learned very quickly not to blame others
not to blame god not to blame my
circumstances but ask myself if i'm in
a sticky situation and i'm having a hard
time and i want to move from that what
is it that i can do to move forward who
can i ask for help
so instead of going on and on about all
these people are racist and feeling
sorry for yourself and finding people to
blame it i found it very productive to
find people who would actually help me
uh books that would help me
laws and openings that would help me and
i think that that's
the the best
well the best message that i can give to
someone in a difficult position is to
say it really is in you you have it in
you to get out of this you can do it
but you have to ask for help and you
have to get rid of the victim mentality
thank you very much and that's exactly
what you're doing i think more but it's
okay
we take the two last questions and then
we really have to go to tell i i saw
that peter lindgren was
was asking so i will can i give
i give you a bit a half minute please so
that i can share the two minutes
uh member of european parliament and
then i will go to
you
for uh
and then i come back here
thank you very much for the floor and
let me start with saying uh welcome to
mrc ali and it is a pleasure to have a
refreshing meeting like this and thank
you asita for arranging this
i am an mep from sweden and i'm a
colleague of asito and in sweden is
nothing bigger than the kind of feminist
you just described but in this house you
the the main focus that they are
obsessed with is human rights in hungary
and poland that we are discussing all
the time
and i mean how can the member states of
the european union take this seriously
this project called the european union
while we in the same time are enter
letting people enter europe who practice
barbaric religious
practices such as female genital
mutilation which by the way asita is
doing a fantastic job about
it should be very very well informed
when when people enter europe that we
have certain values and certain norms
within this country in europe in europe
as a union
but why isn't this talked about why
isn't there a normal debate about it
where are the members of the s d group
now where are the members of the epp
they give
the so-called feminists that are
standing up screaming about poland and
hungary they are not here they are not
listening to this who is a very
important subject that you are bringing
to us today so my question would be
how will it be possible to lift this
kind of debate debate which is very very
serious for all the women
in europe how is it would that be
possible you think to to gain the
interest for having this debate thank
you
i go to the two last questions but
really really 30 seconds otherwise ayan
will not have time to answer because
still will make his conclusion and we
really want to hear what he has to to
tell us i'm super super excited
so i i go to you again for dirty second
this hill snell you fragile force
the
thank you uh so much asita charlie
weimers a member of the european
parliament for sweden i want to start by
uh thanking you for what you're doing
it's uh it sets an example to all of us
um you were quite recently interviewed
by swedish media i listened to it very
carefully and in my country a lot of
things have happened since that the
koran riots during easter where a danish
swedish politician
toured the country the most immigrant
dense areas of sweden to burn the koran
in order to make a point well his point
was vindicated by the worst riots we've
seen in decades in sweden and the police
was shocked because they were there to
protect him but they realized that they
were the target
grandmothers mothers cheering on their
sons while they threw paving stones at
the police
so after this when we all tried to
understand what had happened
the party leader of the center party
which is a sister party to the vvd
she proposed that the police would
should reassess its permit
examination so that the burning of
korans
would be forbidden in certain areas and
during certain periods such as ramadan
and
her purpose is to achieve social peace
obviously
the effect
is that we will for the first time ever
in my country have limitations of
freedom of speech based upon islamic
sensitivities so my question to you
is will this accomplish social peace or
does it carry long-term risks for the
state of free speech in sweden are we
entering a slippery slope that we cannot
get out of
thank you
so i would take one bonus question 20
seconds jill for strata you have to act
the last of us
and 20
in english because the debate was in
english but
one thing that will stick by me and that
i will chew on for a longer time is that
you said we've never enough seen this as
a clash of values and we far too much
seen this problem with integration and
immigration as a perhaps a local
policing problem and not as a clash of
values now
i suppose that
the reason why it's been regarded as
policing problem is also because we've
wanted to respect the rule of law and
that that is one of the only instruments
that is really at hand for the state at
least to combat these kinds of problems
and therefore my question is quite
simply
if this is a clash of values
how do we win this class of values what
kind of role can the state or should the
state play in such a clash of values
is it enough that we just state our
values clearly because i think most
islamists know very well know fully well
what our values are
is it enough
that we announce our values to prevail
in that fight over those values
thank you very much everyone so ayan you
have one minute as a tradition of the
european parliament
so i'm just in initiating you too a real
one
yeah so i think all the questions are
actually related and uh
the last question sums it up
if we look at it if we look at it as a
clash of uh as a clash of
values then that answers the question on
immigration because then you develop an
immigration system that is controlled
that gives you the opportunity to take
in who you want to keep out those you
don't want and those who systematically
break the law you should then have
within that system the ability to depose
them or remove them from the country you
don't have that to even get to that
debate is extremely controversial
so rule if you have if you say this is a
clash of values then you say okay rule
of law and then the second
the gentleman who asked the first
question
it is
you want to protect the rights of women
you want to
you know all of these issues that we're
facing with integration it boils down to
the same thing what exactly is it
that we are fighting for and
you know to what lengths would we like
to go to protect those values the
burning of the koran
okay you have a proposition that says
we're not going to burn the koran
in
neighborhood x
or during a certain period of time
what exactly what does it imply what is
the logic in that
that you combine it in other
neighborhoods
or that you will wait until the time
elapses and then you can have another
quran burning you see how it doesn't
work
and i think it's futile and it is the
same it's the same basis the same logic
for the so-called hate crimes
which is really an assault on freedom of
speech and freedom of conscience i don't
think personally we should be burning
any books
let alone the quran which we know
that it will generate it's it's a
provocation that will generate that type
of
um of violence but in short where sweden
has gone wrong and has been going wrong
in its immigration and integration laws
was it's never been clear of all the
countries it's been the country that's
been least clear about where its
boundaries lie
thank you very much uh ayan and now we
need to oppose education to that yes and
i will give the floor to teo franken to
conclude
thank you
um
foreign
is
is
is
thank you
you

welcome everyone

Toggle Transcript

cudgel::verb | Spocien Dictionary

cudgel

verb

/'kədʒəl/

strike with a cudgel

Type	Words
Synonyms	fustigate
Type of	hit

cudgel::noun | Spocien Dictionary

cudgel

noun

/'kədʒəl/

a club that is used as a weapon

Type	Words
Type of	club
Has types	bastinado, shillalah, shillelagh

How to pronounce cudgel in Dutch?

cudgel::verb | Spocien Dictionary

abandonment

Related words

cudgel::noun | Spocien Dictionary

abandonment

Related words

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