English language

How to pronounce 9004 in English?

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well welcome everybody to this bsi and
iso con
webinar today from iso tc176 equality
management committee we're looking today
at building sustained success in your
organization
and in this session white people are at
the heart of that sustained success
before we get going i will just have a
look at some housekeeping with you
this is a listen only webinar and it is
being recorded you will not be able to
turn on your microphone and speak to us
but we do welcome your questions and
comments via the q a function we're very
keen this is interactive we want a
conversation and we will answer your
live questions throughout the webinar
please don't wait until the end
we'll do it as best as we can as the
conversation progresses
do let us also know if you're having any
technical difficulties because our
technical team is on standby ready to
help you use the q a function for that
too
this is a cpd recognized event so please
do request a certificate by your
feedback survey if that's useful to you
and you will also get slides and access
to the recording on completion of that
survey
before we get into the conversation
today we'd like to show you a brief
video from the chair of our quality
management committee jeffrey hunt
hello i'm jeffrey hunt
chair of iso technical committee 176
our committee is responsible for the
standards affecting quality management
and quality assurance
iso tc 176 is comprised of experts in
quality management from around the world
and includes participating members from
92 countries
and observing members from 32 countries
our committee and subcommittees are
responsible for 21 published standards
importantly our work also directly
supports four of the united nations
sustainable development goals
the need for standards continues to grow
in a vuca world the volatility
uncertainty complexity and ambiguity
created by a global interconnectedness
rapid change and techno technological
innovation has resulted in organizations
needing the benefits of standards to
deliver excellence more than ever
about a year ago our committee undertook
to elevate the discussion about how
existing standards can help users
improve quality in their organizations
in addition the committee felt it is
important to communicate the positions
on developing future trends and quality
management
the quality of day webinars were born
out of these objectives
i i'm pleased you were able to join us
today and know you will hear important
discussions from our esteemed panel of
experts
the three topics today are future
concepts in 9004
innovation with emerging technologies
and why people are at the heart of
sustained success
each session is live but the sessions
will be recorded for distribution after
the event
i encourage you to actively participate
in the sessions the panel members are
looking forward to an engaging
discussion
thank you for attending and enjoy your
quality day
well without further ado i would like to
introduce myself and our panel of
experts
my name is sally swindwood i'm a lead
standards development manager at bsi the
uk national standards body
and i also am actively involved in iso
tc176
with my colleagues who are here with me
today if you can turn on your cameras
please
fantastic thank you very much
sam would you like to introduce yourself
hi everyone my name's sam somerville i'm
the chair of the uk national committee
for quality management and i'm also a
consultant auditor and very involved in
in quality management in all its cases
thank you sam and louisa please
yes hello good day to everybody
thank you very much for the invitation
to this panel
i'm luisa pajares i work as manager of
special project and international
standardization at econtech
the standardization board of colombia
and i participate in the technical
committee of isotc 176 where standards
related to quality management are
developed thank you
thank you very much luisa alison
thank you sally good afternoon good
evening good morning to all of you i am
alison pajarda
pma consultant management systems
consultant involved a lot in what we now
see
management for quality
aspects looking at comprehensively the
systems that for business sustainability
nice to be here with you
great to have you here alison
and finally gustavo please
thank you sally hello everybody
i'm gustavo pontorio from iran argentina
i'm part of dc 176 since last 15 years
and i'm the chair of subcommittee 3
which is supporting technologies
and
this committee is
in charge to development to develop
their guidance standards for quality
management systems
so yes thank you for the invitation and
happy to be here
thank you sorry
thanks gustavo and i'm looking forward
to our discussions this afternoon
i'm going to begin by talking a little
bit about our task group in the
iso committee on emerging trends in
quality and quality management
this group is very much where these
webinars have sprung from we would like
to engage with you our users the
standards
um on what we are doing to look forward
to make sure our standards are
forward-looking rather than
backward-looking that they are useful to
you in the years to come
so we are exploring topics that are
currently
affecting quality management or quality
in general or those that we will foresee
as going to affect quality in the coming
years
many of them aren't new they're not
necessarily new topics but they may have
new importance or be affecting us in new
ways or we may only now be realizing
just how important they are to quality
in our earlier sessions today we looked
at agility at innovation emerging
technologies
and this afternoon we're going to look
at the people aspects
of quality management why it's so
important
to consider those human aspects to
quality customer experience demographic
change ethics integrity they're all
absolutely fundamental to sustain
success and that's what we're going to
talk about this afternoon about why that
is the case
if we can move on to the next slide
please
so many of the topics that were listed
on the previous slide has explored a
human element
so why are people so important to
quality and to building sustained
success
alison
quality management often seems to focus
on processes and systems
why should we be focusing more on people
you're muted alison i'm sorry
sorry about this sally
why
people
okay
just a basic appreciation in management
systems whether it is for quality or
you're managing risk
a process
involves a set of interrelated
activities
using resources to transform something
what we call an input into an output
these resources
inherently require
the human being the doing aspect yes
there is technology and you could have
robotics included
but there is a process to program in
the
robots
and this is where the human being
is involved in doing
the system and system with respect to
the whole context of the organization
whether it is a church a family small
business huge business or business unit
that system incorporates the
interactions of all these processes
so all these activities
so
why not
focus on the human being
and that's this is what i'd add to that
commence sally
thanks alison why not indeed i think
that's a great question
um gus darvo customer satisfaction is a
key part of the subcommittee three
supporting technologies standards
portfolio
why is it so important to get this right
and what does it take
well
customer satisfaction of the customers
relations with the organization who have
quality management system we found in
this committee three which is a key
point of guidelines for for the users of
this kind of standards
so
some time ago
we started to develop a
group of standards uh
within the ten thousand series which is
from ten thousand one hundred and
thousand and four
uh
the ten thousand 1001 two three and four
are a group of standard developed by sc3
related with the customers with a
customer relation with the company who
has a quality management system the
first of all the first of them is 1001
which is
really related with the ethics
calls of conducts
and the relation
the former relation between the
companies and the customers and the kind
of uh guidance to establish rules on
that communication
the the other one is is based on
the the complaints handling which is
1002
and
um this this standard intends to to give
the the users of iso 911 quality
management system some inputs to to
to develop and to to planify the
complaints handling process
within the quality management system
after that we we
study as a document related with
conflicts
management and
the the
resolution of this kind of disputes
between customers and companies and uh
all around this we also developed the
1004 which is the the way or guidance to
to establish a kind of uh
customer satisfaction follow-up process
so
with this group of standards we
developed
all the all the guidance documents to to
manage the customer relations with the
with the code certifier or the companies
that
implement this kind of smart quality
management system and
we manage these four documents like
a subgroup
of
standards within sc3 which is mainly
related with the
customer relations management so uh also
we have their
customer satisfaction liaison team with
the experts within these four
with these four documents that are all
the time monitoring what is going on in
this in this aspect and what is
what are which are the new inputs for
for the this guidance document so for us
in subcommittee 3 and within dc 176 this
is a key point because the customer is
the kind of
direct object of quality management
systems so it's very important for us to
develop guidance documents
thank you gustavo that's right in 9001
of course
the objective is customer satisfaction
ultimately
so
it must be central to everything that we
do
and that sort of begs the question to
louisa if you don't mind
why is the emerging themes group looking
at customer experience
when customer satisfaction is what we
have traditionally focused on
what's changed why is it important to
think about customer experience
well it's very important in recent years
the concept of customer experience and
expectations has been evolving
and becoming increasingly relevant
a lot customers now focus not only on
the quality of a product or services but
also in the experience they have from
the first contact with the organization
and during and after all the process
i recently heard that according to a
survey people are willing to buy a
product again or to receive a service
again if it
even if it has been non-conforming but
they do not tolerate poor customer
services i think
you you have um
experience that when sometimes you go
there and your boat is not good but you
call and you have an excellent
service a customer service that they
provide you with some elements and and
provide information and try to fix that
the problem uh quickly but sometimes you
don't have an answer so that maybe um
do that you drop the service or to
continue
acquiring that product of service
finally
social networks have been also
contributed to change this concept by
allowing people to express their
perceptions and fulfillment of their
expectations regarding an organization
product or services in such in such a
way that it can affect the process the
perception of expectations of another
person without even having purchased the
product or surface or service for
example when you give an
opinion about a restaurant or when you
consult the review of a consul of a
restaurant to see if you can go there
but for example you have been never
there there in the restaurant and you
see the review and says okay no the food
is awful the service is not good i take
one hour on the line so you begin to
think about that and also it's not your
perception and not your experience
you can be affected but
by that
so that's why it's important now to just
not to sing only in the quality of
services but people are expecting to
have a great customer experience when
acquiring a product or service
thanks louisa so that really brings home
the sustained success part of it doesn't
it
if there are organizations out there who
are focusing their quality management on
conforming products and services
it might not be enough because if their
customer service is falling down then
perhaps they're going to get their
competitors in other occasions is that
what the bottom line is do you think
okay
sam
let's have a think about another people
aspect that we're looking at today and
that's demographic change
i don't think it's something that
generally has been considered in quality
management per se i could be wrong do
correct me if i am
um but do you think it's going to have a
big impact on quality management in the
future
what kind of things are we thinking
about what do we need to be considering
yes sally well quality management is
really very much about context
which obviously means that yes it is
going to be impacted by demographic
change things like aging societies
things like the gulf between older and
younger workers
things like migration education the use
and availability of technologies
environments
traditions
politics even wars as sadly we're seeing
at the moment
so any changes actually whether that's
locally or globally now are likely to
have an impact on on the way that
quality is managed in an organization
um
and that in impact could be through who
the workforce is or where they're
located whether they want to work in
particular industries perhaps um it may
be through the way that people are
trained or communicated with or or
managed and it might even mean that a
whole new workforce is is suddenly
becomes available um or even as alison
mentioned earlier that there might be
some examples where actually people
aren't needed greatly at all and and you
still need to consider that
it's not even just about the workforce
of course it's anybody who impacts on or
is impacted by um and changes to the
organization so customers the customer
experience that communication suppliers
communities
whatever the change the the organization
needs to consider this as as part of how
they lead the organization and manage
quality
thinking about all of those things that
we've just been discussing
and ensuring that they can effectively
adapt to to meet those challenges while
retaining that confidence that they're
achieving their their overall objectives
thank you thank you sam thank you it
takes me a moment to find the unmute
button too alison it's not just you
and we do have a question that's just
come in but i'm going to hold it for a
little while until we start talking
about 9004 so please don't think we're
ignoring you and do send more questions
in we will get to it um if we can go on
to the next slide please
jeffrey hunt in the video that started
this webinar talked about avuca society
volatile uncertain complex ambiguous and
we really are living through a time of
rapid change and uncertainty
from a people perspective
how do you think this is affecting
quality management gustavo if i can come
to you first please
sorry um
well
you said that the organization has
had a
kind of
madness time in this
these last two years and they start to
to see know how to be agile for to to
incorporate some changes in the context
to to to know
or to learn
how to
interact with their customers how how to
really
[Music]
design their products and services and
how to redesign their processes
to work in a different way
so this this uh
a big amount of changes in the
organization needed to be sustainable in
the next future with the next with a new
reality
so the people
inside this organization had to to
accommodate to to
uh to be to change
with the organization to be to be
useful or to be aligned with the
objectives and to be
really value added resource within the
organization so
uh the first thing they have to do is to
be more agile and
more
adaptable to the changes
and this
is mixing with their personal situation
everybody in the world this this time
had some
uncertainty on how is going on the
pandemic situation how it's going on the
business of of the their companies how
is going on uh the solution for the for
the problem we we have now we are facing
the a new reality a new way to do the
businesses and uh that's that is for
sure a
factor that affects the people within
the organization
so
for for the people is it's important to
to
to have a kind of long-term um a
medium-term view in within their life
and how to come to to customize their
real situation with a with their work
situation and this this i think this is
the the main
[Music]
factor that
affects the the people
in the organization and this
if as as the people is the the one of
the
principal
pillars of the quality management
because
they do what
needs to be done so uh is very important
to to have them aligned and committed
and in line with their own objectives
and
the company goals and this situation was
not so
easy uh to manage during this time so uh
the main the main problem that the
organization has to face to face up with
the people is to
to to maintain them uh in the same
channel in the same way to
to
to adapt to the new vision of the
organization
now
after the pandemic situation
the there are some new problems because
uh
i think the future is not what we was
looking uh at the beginning of the
pandemic the future is something
different in between the previous part
under on on the pandemic situation and
with all the companies had to to really
decide their ways to to do business in
this in this site in this sense so
uh
people now is
adapting to a new change again and they
are learning from the pandemic situation
they are learning from the previous
pandemic situation and trying to
construct a new reality in their works
which is stressing which is uncertain
and for sure will affect the quality on
on the capacity of the company to
fulfill the
the customer needs and expectations
but for sure
the mid and long term future will be
different and more calibrated than we
have had
the last two years
thanks gustavo um
sam i'm going to come to you i think
the whole world is aware that the uk has
experienced a lot of upheaval and
insecurity over the last couple of years
last few years um not just the pandemic
which we will come back to
but political economic social
environmental we've had all sorts of
issues going on in the uk
do you think that is affecting quality
management in uk businesses and our
ability to sustain
success
yes so
everybody has had to deal with so many
challenges recently even to survive let
alone to succeed and and achieve
sustained success so um i think
core to that survival has been the
ability to respond quickly and to be
flexible to those ever-changing needs
and i think quality management has
become more and more important certainly
um i've seen that you know companies
with a good quality management system
have been more robust they've got that
built-in resilience to support them
through these things
risk-based thinking and a process
approach to coordinating activities to
mitigating all of the risks and and the
challenges that we've been facing
have been increasingly important and
valuable to to organizations
and i think from a people perspective
you know supporting people
to cope with challenges on a personal
level recognizing difficulties and
working together to face those
challenges uh and and has actually
brought benefits to quality in many
circumstances through creating that that
culture where where people feel valued
and empowered and and also building that
loyalty then back towards the the
company
so having the right people and the right
culture in place
to manage this level of fast-paced
change looking for
continual improvements
um
developing strategies that can be
quickly and effectively communicated
across the organization to to bring
everybody on that journey in a
controlled way um has been what's added
the value and it's been really priceless
i think to to organizations
so you see there's been a benefit there
definitely i think so
okay great um so
if i come to you alison i mean obviously
the caribbean goes through its own
issues different issues possibly again
all down to context isn't it where do
you operate what's happening in the
world around you what are you dealing
with
but are they the same kind of issues
that sam's been talking with are they
different from a people perspective how
is it affecting businesses in the
caribbean all this change and
uncertainty
thanks daly in fact
it's very similar to what sam expressed
the issues associated with uncertainty
rapid change
is
the same are the same issues that we're
facing i mean if you add cap onto that
the extra vulnerability because of our
location and exposed to
of course climatic issues hurricanes and
heavily dependent on one industry such
as tourism in many instances
particularly for the small islands ad
increases the gravity that i would say
with regards to the fear but what we've
found and it's consistent with just what
sam said is that the need to um look for
guidance to put stability
and an approach to managing
in a more systematic way
methodologically
has not been
as it has now
with respect to the pandemic
i think that definitely we are seeing an
increase whether it is
with regards to looking for new
opportunities in terms of with export
market but importantly these sort of
reliance on international guidelines of
best practices
that the iso management standards offer
has been gaining a lot of popularity i
mean i'm speaking of there are right now
taking place eu funded projects covering
several of the small islands the system
companies to implement these systems and
another thing that sally mentioned and
even gustavo with regards to what the 20
the latest version offers
with regards to risk-based thinking
focusing on um
the
the process not
the
document documentation but any form of
documentation providing more flexibility
to the businesses
i think that's really presented an
opportunity to promote these standards
if it were the earlier version the
earlier version already had a a very
poor
uptake
with regards it was just felt that it
was too too heavy with regards to
meeting specific requirements but
for quality management systems other
management systems
including business continuity
and the even the core 31 000 we've been
seeing some increased
interest
because it provides the guidance one
more thing i'd like to add that's at the
core of
the management system so for quality
focusing on
the team approach whether you call it
quality circles
excuse me but people working together
under this panda pandemic environment
i thought that
the the pandemic really fostered that
which is what was already being promoted
in quality management looking at quality
teams etc
so that's really interesting but
actually
that's people part of it the team
approach not having individuals
responsible for everything
is something that you're seeing is
driving success it builds more
resiliency and i guess more continuity
but i was also interested to hear you
say that uptake of 31 000 which for
anybody who doesn't know is the risk
management standard guidance on risk
management and there has been more
uptake on that do you think it is a
reflection of the times we're living in
that that has become more popular
definitely in terms of guidance on how
to to manage and and the sl and accessor
looks at i mean you call structure
but how do we treat with risk
specifically
in any sort of environment if for those
of the companies have that are already
involved in qms the qms and
professionals will be
focusing on yes the risk-based thinking
approach etc
but there has been some interest
although
not at the certification level
um because again access to accredited
certification services is very limited
for the islands
but
the interest in the standards in the
documents has increased
and i think it's good that you bring up
the certification issue alison because
of course in tc176
we don't write the certification
we write documents to help people
improve their businesses
and certification is a route it is
really useful for some organizations
some stages in their development or if
they want certain contracts for example
but it's not the only route
you can certainly get plenty of benefit
out of the 21 or so standards from tc
176 without ever talking to a
certification body it's it's not what
it's about it's actually about taking
those standards using them as they are
intended
to get the full benefit
rather than doing them in a very minimal
way to get a piece of paper and say look
i have a certificate
um i would like to come to louisa now i
mean we've touched on the uk and the
particular circumstances on this small
northern ireland we've looked at the
southern sunnier islands
latin america is a very big continent
and gustavo spoke from argentina you're
in colombia very different countries
different parts of the world
are you seeing similar issues are you
seeing similar responses and
how is it affecting people
in the quality management space are they
adapting
okay thank you yes
i am from colombia
and
i believe we are sharing some
issues around the world that we are
sharing with every everybody i mean that
all our experience some things and also
we have a particular things in our
country
so i think
this kind of context impact of already
in the quality management system and the
quality management
in general
because
this context that we are living now it's
a little bit complicated
um rape
rapid change and uncertainty um the
demand quickly responds and a high
degree of adaptation resilience
so
i i can see now that organizations are
more aware of the importance of even
identify and understand how this context
can
impact in their operations in the way
that the things are doing in the people
before organizations were not taking
into account so many
elements from the context because you
are in your market you know
it's like you are comfortable in your
zone
so no you you didn't have into account
things like a pandemic that came from
another country so now you are
organizations and also people are more
aware that have to pay attention more in
things that are happening around to see
how they can impact
in the operation or in your life
and how can you address that to maybe
generate opportunities pandemic not it's
not only about a bad things but only
also for opportunities to take and many
people have changed for example their
motivation their way to do things
and
the needs on an expectation of the
customers have changed now
and
so you have to begin to see
how to address that and become that part
of as an opportunity
to to
address that
to comply with that new needs and
expectations that have customers so yes
i think that have affecting
the quality management i think now we
are trying to be more prepared and as
say sam and alison and gustavo people is
trying to be more flexible try to
understand more and to be
more careful with what is happening
and
trying to adapt i think that resilience
is like they were
thank you louisa and um i'd like to move
swiftly on to the next slide because
louise is already going there about the
impact of the pandemic and and the
impact of managing people in
organizations um you know
it's been a challenge hasn't it with
many people working from home for
example or
factories having to close down for some
time or other businesses having to close
down
and is it impacting our quality was the
first question i wanted to
ask but also louise you've already
started to talk about
the opportunities that have come out of
it and the rest of it and which is you
know anybody familiar with iso 9001
knows that we always talk about risks
and opportunities they walk hand in hand
through our standards because we are
aware that where there are risks there
may also be opportunities and where you
take opportunities there's going to be
some risks so
they're never completely divorced from
each other are they um so do you think
these things are going to lead to
permanent changes or is it a short term
thing
well
i consider that risk is um that there is
no sorry that a
change is always there
the world is changing
new technologies uh
new generations new products and
services so always exchanging maybe
in a in a
different
scale but always there is present
here is that you have the opportunity to
take that
that change and become that opportunity
or or to try to address that to
minimize the impact in your organization
but
the change is going to be permanent i
see it in a greater or lesser extension
and the important thing is try to adapt
to the tour to that change and to be
resilient
um
that is what we need to work
on to survive this uh rapid change that
we are living so yes i i think it's
going to be
here for uh
as i say a permanent question about a
permanent thing about um changing
thanks louisa i mean you're absolutely
right the one thing that never goes away
is change
it's just the speed that it comes at us
that changes occasionally but that's a
change in itself so yes it's about
change
yes also if you see the pandemic what
have done is to accelerate things for
example digital transformation was
something that it was um
it was uh developing before
it was very slow but i mean
they think that it was it's not a result
of the pandemic but it's it accelerates
it helps to accelerate that so now
almost everybody is in in the part of
digital in
in a digital world but the worries
the change is always there always so you
have to try to see understand
uh to pay attention of that change
because always is is is there
oh you're absolutely right
sam are you seeing a difference in how
organizations are actually managing
people or dealing with people i mean not
necessarily just the people in their
workforce but
the interested parties is it generally
changed how is it affecting them
i think there have been
like everything else they've been lots
and lots of changes now and and
you know i i think generally positive
although there have obviously been some
negative impacts as well and
particularly on on some individuals
and i think you know that
one of the things is that people have
actually felt empowered to walk away
from organizations where they feel that
they're not being managed well or
treated fairly and with respect and so
you know it's really raised the profile
i think of of how people are managed and
treated within organizations um people
expect to have good boundaries they
don't always get them sadly but they're
expecting boundaries between work life
and and home life and they're thinking
about mental health you know it's
something that is has really risen in
the profile of companies throughout this
period of the pandemic
which i think is a positive thing uh you
know companies actually have to really
think about being an employer of choice
that that people actually do want to go
and work for them that they offer
benefits and and the environment and the
culture
that that people actually want to work
in
um which you know
even things like there's been a shift
towards perhaps more output-based
working
uh some companies have realized that
more hours worked don't necessarily
equal more productivity
and so you know there's been a change
around thinking about how they can
support the workforce and how they can
encourage people
to be more productive and more effective
and also happier in their work and and
really want to work for that
organization
thanks sam and i just want to ask a bit
of a follow-up there just to make it
really clear to our audience
why are all those things that you've
mentioned so fundamental to quality
you you need people to be engaged
in for a good quality management system
you need the people on that journey with
you um and so you know it's really all
about setting the environment for that
and creating the culture for for quality
within an organization and its partners
so you know we do need to think about
supply chain customers and all of those
other interested parties as well
thank you
alison if i can come to you
we're in
a particular stage of this pandemic
um it seems to me that whenever we think
we're in a state we're actually in a
different stage because of all change
again um so i just wanted to ask you
about how workers that you come across
that you work with are reacting to this
sort of
constant evolution of the pandemic and
the effects of the pandemic how it may
affect how they're working it may affect
how they're able to socialize or
interact in the world whether they're
wearing a mask or not all those things
what what are you seeing in your region
are people adapting well or not is there
a mixed response or is it a coordinated
response
sally it's mixed but
one of the things that sam mentioned i'd
like to pivot from is that
many of
i'm seeing
increased empowerment
of the worker whether or not it has been
facilitated by the organization by
management or not
but they are demanding more
and they can make a choice
another thing that i've found is that
with going through the stages of the
pandemic
with people getting back into work
it almost
differentiated
the environments that people wanted to
go back to work in
and so you found that this push there
are some organizations that are
struggling with getting people to a
happy medium coming back in and when you
delve deep into that you do work with
these organizations and you do the
diagnostics
you find out sometimes well there was a
problem before it was not really a happy
engaged people environment eve pre
covert
and so
the challenge is getting people back in
and there are some
that people want to go back in they
really are so happy to come in middle
mangrove people be part of the system
and
in so what it's speaking to in all cases
it's putting the attention on the people
the happiness of the people how do we
get them involved
what is really engagement in terms of
sharing the objectives the purpose of
the organization
and you know so never mind if you were
iso 9001 certified before or whatever
suddenly that aspect of people
management i think is being emphasized
so much more by leaps and bounds because
of the pandemic
and i think you're absolutely right the
pandemic has really shown a light
for some organizations perhaps
less enlightened organizations
but if they don't have a happy workforce
they're very fragile ultimately it can
all fall apart very very quickly
um
all the days of a disposable workforce
where you can just get rid of one person
and bring in somebody new
and that seems to be the experience
you're reflecting that people are going
no
i won't do that anymore
which is you know i think in the long
run that's got to be a good thing
because we know that engaged workers
workers who feel valued
they lead to a better organization
they lead to more successful
organizations but they also lead
organizations
that look after their customers
because if they're valued they value
their customers they value the products
and services they're providing they're
proud of them
if you don't like your employer
you're not going to give them good
service your products and services are
likely to be a little bit wobbly and i
don't want to hear how you talk to your
customers if they have a complaint i
suspect they won't be following the
guidance that gustavo and his team have
provided
um
gustavo do you think these changes in
work patterns and this empowerment
these different ways of working with far
more people now working remotely
permanently or certainly much more often
do you think it's going to affect
quality in the long term
yes
i think
my feeling is that
positively or negatively can affect
quality
in the long term because
it depends on the on the ability of the
companies and
the way they
they work with their people to to align
with the new
new way to work new new
conditions uh for the processes the
different way to communicate with the
customers the different way to
deliver their products and services and
so on
uh is is very important for quality the
the customers needs and expectations are
changing with the with this situation
and the the resilience and the ability
of the companies to align with these new
requirements or these new expectations
is fundamental for for
for the for this the continuity of the
suspen the the
success the future success of of the
company
and
for sure the different way the
people is working today than the
previous pandemic
situation
will change the outcomes of the quality
management system is the planification
and the and the
the the context evaluation and least
evaluation
in the company is not is not adequate so
the the long-term impact
for sure will
they will have
a long-term impact and uh
perhaps we
the companies will need to find and
relieve you between the pre-pandemic and
post-pandemic situation and find a way
to
to
to balance the post situation because
the the homework in the the
the people is alone at home working in
in a process which is managed digitally
and uh the the relationship between
people is less is more cold is more uh
distant and
that in that way the quality
can feel the consequences because
uh if the communication is not so
strong as to
be everybody in the same page is
difficult to
to to have a kind of
assurance of quality within the
processes of the organization so it's
very important to
monitor the processes to make risk
assessments to make uh
results assessments to to
to evaluate the processes results and
and
redesign the quality factor in the
company to to align them with a new way
to work but
if if you are
effective in doing that perhaps you will
have
a good impact or a positive impact in
the in the long term but if you are not
so agile or not so
flexible to adapt uh the impact could be
you you can be uh successful in in the
short term but if you don't adapt
in a long time you your sustain success
in that
in that sense i think it depends on the
capability of the company to adapt to
the new to the new reality
thanks gustavo and you've really under
underlined the points that alison was
making earlier about
processes and people
that they're linked you can't
disentangle them
um people may have a perception that
quality is only about systems and
processes but it's they are inextricably
linked and and you're right if if you
don't manage that side of it the other
side of it isn't going to work either
and the relationship management is also
very important in people aspects
absolutely absolutely well i want to
talk um a little bit more about this
holistic approach if we can go to the
next slide please
and um
you know we often focus on iso 9001
it's been nice today because actually we
focused a little bit more on ten
thousand and one to ten thousand and
four which are just as important but
sometimes overlooked as guidance
standards
but iso 9004 which talks about
the quality of the organization
for sustained success rather than
the quality of products and services
is another really important guidance
document
sam how do you think standards like iso
9004 impact
the people aspects of quality management
um yeah i think it's really important
what you were just saying then sally
about you know quality management is
more than iso 9001
uh you know there's so much around
quality management that that
is covered in these other standards such
as the 10 000 series and the likes of
9004
um and and
i'm a great um exponent that
really people should know more about
them because they're so valuable and
adds so much uh value to organizations
um so 9004
does cover more about the people aspects
it's looking at it stresses the
importance of trust and integrity and
culture um and really you know when
we're talking about people that's what i
think that we're talking about it is
that more holistic approach to culture
how do you build that environment
for
management and quality um you know
thinking about success including
democratic demographic development
changing values diversity
capacity flexibility
and also that competence learning and
development piece you know it's so
important that organizations are
bringing people on the journey with them
you don't have an organization without
people
so it's really really important
not sure if i answered your question
there sally but
i don't know we'll find out see if
people ask more questions
um but at this point i would like to um
bring in our first question
um which i've held over
uh gustavo mentioned
right early on in our discussions
customer satisfaction
um
and this question i would like to know
is costa customer the same as
stakeholder interested parties
as in 9001. does it mean the same thing
in 9004 is it
the same thing
sorry the um
a customer is is it the same thing in in
9004 as as 9001
um
well i would say yes and no because you
can have all sorts of customers they're
not necessarily just the people that buy
your product i would argue um so for
instance within an organization you can
have internal customers as well and so
that's where i think it brings
into 9004 in this whole
kind of concept of all interested
parties are important and you need to
focus on all of those needs and
expectations
not just perhaps the final end purchaser
of whatever product or service that
you're offering
but 9004 of course
really stresses the importance of
treating everybody as if they were your
primary customer doesn't it so it's
almost flipping that question on its
head
actually interested parties are the same
as customers rather than customers being
in interested parties
it's it's very much a focus on
relevant it's all about the relevant
interested parties of course because
your competitors are interested parties
you perhaps don't want to treat them
quite as well as other interested
parties um because you need your team
sorry sally but yes but you need to take
their needs and expectations into
consideration uh you don't necessarily
need to to give them what they want
but you need to consider them
thank you sam um
louisa
iso 9004 has a focus on the identity of
an organization can you explain a bit
more what that means for our audience's
benefit but also
how might an organization's identity
change over the long term
okay yes
um the identity of an organization is a
determined by its characteristics like
and it's based on its mission visions
value
and culture
in other words is uh what the
organization is or what the
organizations are
in the london in the long term some
element of the identity may be varied um
change will change to adapt to different
contexts technologies generations
and as they develop but other elements
will be maintained or keep as they are
or strengthened
such as certain non-negotiable
values something that you cannot for
example ethics so maybe it's that i hope
that values that
it's going not to change in the in the
in the long term but that the
organization has to take into account so
like people like
humans being or organizations identity
will be molded
as it evolves when passing the time
regarding the context but also you have
to maintain the essence of the
organizations they cannot lost their
north and so that's
important things
so that's about
that identity is going to change but
sometimes
it's going to evolve we can say that
and this very much comes back to that
concept of culture that we were talking
about about before doesn't it the
culture's not static it's dynamic it
changes we're back to context i guess
context drives everything as well
um gustavo do you think 9004 use of 9004
and that holistic approach to creating a
quality organization rather than just
quality products and services
does that accelerate an organization's
ability
to improve the values for their people
in the future given that we are talking
about dynamism and change
yes i i think is that is very important
when you speak about 9004 and on the
sustainable success and the quality of
management and another qualities
management
the people
became more and more important for for
the
for this kind of
thinking or this kind of rationale
because
uh the people is the the key factor here
in the in the
competitive factor uh for for the
organization to to develop their
intentions to develop their objectives
that to to fulfill what they are
planning to do
so uh the the people the people
uh
value in this in this kind of
management is is much more important
than
in quality money on only thinking in
quality management
so uh
that is important to working in
in in knowledge and skills for the
people to assure the the equality but
the commitment the empowerment the
motivation and so on is really a factor
which is
uh involved in the
in the
sustainable success of the company not
only
we will need to assure that the people
just knowing what to do you need the
people involved in in the objective
involved in the in the success of the
company and the only way to do that is
to to
watch the teacher in a broader in the
with a broader lens and and to to
involve the people in this kind of
processes so i think i think ice 2004 is
a kind of uh
accelerator for for this kind of
relationship between the companies and
the people who are part of the company
is a really important factor
thank you gustavo
um
9004 does put quite a lot of focus on
learning and development innovation
competence
um alison
do you have any tips for organizations
on how they
can positively impact the people in
their organization and the people they
interact with those relevant interested
parties that we were just talking about
thanks sally um
you know i i really i love this standard
to answer your question i'll first to
reference the 9004
because as sam mentioned it focuses on
the organization i use it as a precursor
in fact when dealing with a lot of
companies who are interested in getting
putting in place the quality management
system standard
but
why i draw reference to this is because
it recognizes that first you need to
bring clarity to your
your purpose your ways and debts why are
you in existence
set clear objectives
and that's a key a number one for
getting engaged people
they need to on very often you find
people working within an organization at
different levels
and they yes there are mission vision
statements i'm all stuck up everywhere
but they do not understand the core
purpose of the organization why does it
exist and how the relationship with
regards to the context
and this 9004 starts off with this
9004 i think also recognizes in every
single element
where it deals with down as it's been
mentioned before the learning the
improvement
that
you people are involved and we can we
keep people's interests by newness
introducing change in fact as difficult
as it is to manage
if you don't recognize that you if you
you're not in an evolving position
and you stay stagnant doing the same
thing all the time
your voices aren't heard meaning that
you don't have a mechanism in place
for capturing
mistakes
lessons learned bringing people together
to review
to to give the ideas all of what your
standard speaks to
you have your goal you get
your um these ideas to keep your people
satisfied and engaged it also provides
an opportunity to notice their
contributions
because it's not about a culture of
hiding a mistake but yes talking about
that mistake have done and a mechanism
to elevate it to senior management
give recommendations
so recognition importance to
the human being the people within an
organization
and so if i had to summarize you know
these these tips
one get everybody sold on the purpose of
the organization what you're about
the organization's strategic priorities
in a very simple format
two
give them
um
some means of
measuring their work their progress
three recognize it
recognize have their voices their
suggestions
all aspects that are addressed in 9004
thank you alison and i think it's a good
time to mention that um
sc3 is actually later this year going to
publish a new standard isn't it gustavo
do you want to say something about it
about the
1010
yes uh yes uh it was a proposal a few
years ago from i think was coming from
china the the new world kind of proposal
and uh
to receive a
new work item proposal to study
to study guidance for uh develop the
quality culture within the organization
and for for them
from my point of view is a very
interesting guidance document we are
together with the implementation of
quality money in the system it's very
important to
to modify or to uh
reset the quality the quality culture
within the organization because without
that is kind of reaction mode noise it's
a kind of uh
system that which is reacting to the to
the development to the requirements
establishing the standard but if you
have a quality culture within the
organization
it's very difficult to
to
to go on and to to
to move the organization in the in the
sense you you need you can perhaps you
fulfill the requirements but the the
quality culture is not going with with
the requirements and it's a heavy
it's a heavy
work to
to
move a quality management system which
is not supported by quality culture so
this standard is going to be published i
think this year and it will have a
guidance
in such important uh
issue within the companies that are
implementing quality management systems
by stone ice 9001
thanks gustavo and if we go to the next
slide i think actually we've covered a
lot of this already but there are one or
two questions i'd still like to
um ask and i'm going to come to louisa
first and it is a little bit unexpected
this question for you for which i
apologize
we both work together and did both work
together on the development of iso 45001
for occupational health and safety
management another management system
but one which places at the heart of it
participation and consultation of
workers
which
the quality management standards
traditionally don't 9004 certainly puts
more emphasis on it
but given everything we have discussed
today
do you think it is something that may
need to come into the quality standards
in future i think it was alison who said
you know if you involve people in things
if they have ownership over it they
believe in it better is it is it
something you would like to see in the
quality standards
[Music]
um yes
um
it's interesting because uh i think all
the elements are important but
people is very important because we work
with people and we work for people
so it is important to
to have them in the heart as we can say
of of their management systems um
it's not only because as you as some and
alisson and gustavo has said
and to in
to engage people it's very important
because if not if the people is not uh
have that commitment with the
organization if they don't believe on
that
if they are not
not aware of the
their importance in that
if they don't know how to contribute
so you can say that the management
system is not going to the quality
management it's not going to work very
well as you said before
if a person is not motivated
as you can imagine how it's going to
answer
if you are going for a support so it
maybe it's not but it's bad attitude or
maybe is is the person is not going to
do
a
um it's best effort to try to respond or
to be kind but just to because sometimes
when you are not happy
uh the stress or you are so stressed you
cannot respond very well
even if you want it so it it sounds in
your voice or in your attitude so that
is going to reflect in the final at the
at the final
in the customer so that's why it's
important to involve people because
people makes the management system
people are
people are the the the one that is a
and that you are uh trying to meet their
needs and expectations not only the
customer but don't know interested
parties the workers
and everything everybody so it's it's
very important to focus on
on people in these standards a little
bit more
thanks louisa and um sam 9004 talks
about
continually emerging factors for success
and this kind of relates to what louisa
is saying really how does an
organization
harness people's ability to recognize
those factors to help drive that
sustained success
so i think again that that really falls
down to having that culture and the
environment for uh effective quality
management having the right people and
leadership who are empowering people to
identify those emerging risks and
opportunities
and remembering also
what allison was saying earlier about
you know you you also have to have the
right environment where uh
there's consideration for what happens
when things don't quite go to plan
uh because you know it's that approach
to failure
that will determine whether or not
people will feel comfortable to propose
ideas and and to make suggestions for
innovations
um so you know and having that broader
approach also i think to interested
parties
so it's not just focusing on on
customers or even people within the
organization but you know for instance
how can you work better with your supply
chain or how could improved
relationships with the community in
which your organization works have a
mutual benefit
um you know how can you identify and
harness new approaches uh to emerging or
existing issues so that you can build
somewhere that those ideas for
innovation
can can flourish it's all very much
about people environment and culture um
that that enables the the everybody to
to kind of work together and recognize
these
factors that are going to
drive sustained success
say sally as well
um just i think it's something that's
becoming more and more important as
customers and investors
are looking not just at the product and
service that's being produced but
actually the environment that it's being
produced in they're wanting to see
evidence of
ethics and sustainability as well
sorry thank you
please don't be sorry i was just going
to say um how
interesting it is and and almost how
obvious i guess
um is that in the previous session that
we had that was talking about
innovation
and agility and emerging technologies
the the two different sessions
all of the things that you're all saying
now have also been brought up and how
important people are
um i i wanted to just sort of say about
you know
the mention of the importance of failure
um we had a huge discussion about that
in the last webinar that if you are in
an organization where you are not
allowed to fail
you will never innovate and you will
never go forwards
um so it's just really fascinating how
it's all tied together all of these
different emerging trends and we've all
had
small groups of experts go and explore
them and write small papers on them and
give us some reference material for more
in-depth reading but they're all linked
and ultimately they're all linked to
whether your organization is going to
survive or not and whether it's going to
do well or not
i wanted to come back to you alison
just briefly on the question of
empowered workers
and i was wondering what you were seeing
in in
businesses
where you work
are the top management reacting well
to their empowered workers are they
adapting to that change of a more
empowered workforce
so it depends
on the profile of the top managers
we have a lot of small and medium-sized
businesses
family businesses
and
we found that we what what you find and
i think it's no different with these
sort of that profile of businesses
throughout the world where
if you have the owner who has grown with
the business and
set involved calcified
and the board is comprised comprised of
just himself and herself or another
family member very small it's very
difficult to infuse the change
that's needed i mean the young
entrepreneurs dynamic yes
but in many cases when it's like this
with the family-owned businesses you try
to tackle the top like from the board of
directors and try to
get allow for the the slight departure
from day to day
involvement in the business
that really steps in the way of
recognizing that yes the employee wants
to feel part and
in ownership to this as much as you are
in order to give off the best another
thing that has been helping is that you
know the younger workforce already
wouldn't have it any other way just
naturally you know
they probably don't even
know anything about quality or
even couldn't
um make a difference whether or not it's
pandemic or not pandemic
but they they want to to feel part of
this purpose otherwise they get bored
very easily and they move on
so
it helps when
you have the leadership being flexible
not a fixed mindset
fixed in their ways but willing to
embrace
just that change uncertainty and getting
people to share in
the um
the ownership quote-unquote of the
business objectives and purposes
yeah
look at that answer the question
i think so
thank you very much
okay we only have around 10 minutes left
so um we do need to move on
and i'd just like to ask each of you
um about potential revisions future
revisions of iso 9001
most people on this call will i'm sure
be aware that the standard is currently
stable it is not going into revision at
this time following a ballot of member
bodies
um so for the time being nothing is
happening
but at some point it will change
our world is changing i guess at some
point we'll need to update our standard
um so thinking about the future
do you think people aspects need to be
more central
to the requirements of iso 9001
or is it enough
is the guidance enough is it okay
alison i'm going to come to you first on
that please
sally i think though
and
you know the decision to keep iso
9001
2015 the same
amidst all of what's going on because i
mean it was based on survey results etc
i think
provides testimony to how the the the
value of
the design what was put into designing
that standard to make it applicable and
flexible to any situation or
environment
what is where i think the issues need to
be um the focus of attention is perhaps
not so much with respect to
the
what's in the standard but
with regards to what's happening with
the standard outside of
the the standards development process
the commercialization the tech the
certification and
the um that this
misconception
where
the along the supply chain
it is being pushed as a must to do
business that third-party situation and
we feel it a lot within the region i'll
tell you why because
let's say for trinidad the oil and gas
sector and you have heavy um
investments in from globalized companies
you know
and they they they have it as
prerequisites for dealing with the small
businesses within the supply chain so
you have businesses come to you i just
want to be certified i don't care the
the nobody on the board or the senior
management never even read the standard
or they don't even care
and once it starts from that front i
almost i i
refuse and refer the work to somebody
else because you really want to be
dealing with people who appreciate
the purpose of the management system for
sustainability of the business and if
we're willing to talk some of the
language of iso 9004
then you catch my attention
of which certification to 9001 is
just an icing on the cake by the way if
you decide to do so
so if anything
the standard 9001 since it's the most
widely marketed should almost
explicitly make reference to guidance
from other
standards such as
i-9004 etc as prerequisites that would
be my suggestion and of course other the
standards
thanks
so just throw in all of the guidance
from 9004 into the requirements of 9001
and alison will be happy she doesn't
last for much
ah brilliant
okay i'm gonna come to gustavo next do
you think there needs to be more
explicit people focus in 9001
okay i i think that the
quality concept is changing during the
time and
the interests of the customers of the
organization are
more wider than
the characteristic of the product or
services they get from the organization
they are interested in the
environmental aspects in sustainability
aspects in
social responsibility and so on
these are aspects covered by different
management system standards also within
the iso but i think the quality concept
will be more broader than
that
focus on the characteristics of the
product and services that are provided
by the company
so
people
is involved in all the processes that
are related with expectation of of the
of the customer of go of a company so i
think people
is one of the most important
drivers
in the quality management for the future
because uh we need to to enlarge
the scope of quality concept within the
companies and the people is involved in
in in everything they're in
communication in relationship in
the way
they
they interact with the customers in a
way they
create the personality of the company
the people is
is really
a key factor there so i i think
people is one of the most uh
potential
growing aspects within quantity
management
so gustavo was that a long yes you would
like to see some requirements
thank you luisa what's your view
okay
well i say also yes i think it's very
important not only for what we have here
here but also
we have to take into account that new
things go as
the internet
the social media
has
increasingly the part of a customer
experience that you have to improve
so it is important to include a people
aspect because at the end
your
experience as a customer in an
organization depends
a lot of people that is uh
giving that
that service or providing that that
product so i think it is important to
include a little bit more about that
maybe in a more simple way sometimes we
have a
standards are not very easy sometimes to
understand for people we have also um
guidance but sometimes the guidance
is not reflecting maybe a sector like
terminology or a simple way to speak so
sometimes we need to be more aware of
that and try to
um provide better requirements and
guidance easily to understand for people
regarding exactly people aspects
and to that
and and that's very much related to a
whole other piece of work that's going
on about the future of management system
standards at the moment um about
language and accessibility
inclusivity diversity
um
across the whole board
so exciting
yeah
so glad you brought it up louisa because
we haven't talked about it at all and
yet just like sustainability
these are key components in our world we
know that they're important and yet our
standards aren't quite there yet are
they
exactly the idea is that people can
identify or reflect their experience in
the standard i mean that it is easier
for them to say oh here i can i i see
myself reflected in that i can do that
or i need to do that or this is me this
is my role so sometimes it's not so easy
to identify that in the standard
thank you louisa um sam i'm giving you
about half a minute to answer the
question because we've run out of time
again
i'll say yes um and also i think
absolutely i agree with everything that
everybody has said it's that awareness
piece as well let's not worry too much
even about what
iso 9001 says about people aspects let's
uh engage people and make them aware
that actually what they can do you know
9001 tells you the minimum let's go
beyond that let's look at 9004 and these
other standards and just what's right
for their organization but yes
absolutely it's so so important
thank you simon i'm so sorry to rush you
um we have got one question in here that
we haven't answered well two actually
but one of them is too long to answer
now but one person has said do you think
when reviewing the standards we should
start to
uh include un objectives i assume that
means the sustainable development goals
and i just wanted to assure our attendee
that we do
we are doing that already
and we have mapped our standards against
the un sustainability
development goals
they are available on our website and as
if by magic there is the link to our
website do go and have a look at what
we're doing to explore it and do get in
touch
stay in touch with us we need to hear
from you we do want to hear your
questions we do want to hear about your
challenges your initiatives your good
ideas bad practices the whole lot
because it's only by your involvement
that standards get written they are for
you
um so please do talk to us
um and now
it's over so i must just say thank you
to all of those attendees who came and
listened to our conversation tonight
we really appreciate it we hope you'll
come along again when we do another
another one of these sessions
and to my colleagues the wonderful panel
that we've had today
thank you thank you alison thank you
gustavo thank you louisa thank you sam
i've really enjoyed the conversation i
hope you have too and i hope we do it
all again soon
goodbye
thank you goodbye

well welcome everybody to this bsi and

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How to pronounce 9004 in English?

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